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# Wait, The DHS Secretary Invested HOW Much in a Kratom Company?
- URL: https://ghost.psymposia.com/wait-the-dhs-secretary-invested-how-much-in-a-kratom-company/
- Published: 2026-06-15T04:00:03.000Z
- Updated: 2026-09-29T01:01:47.000Z
- Author: Mike Elliott
- Tags: Videos, #youtube, #youtube-transcript

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## Transcript

*This transcript was generated automatically from YouTube's captions, then cleaned up by removing filler words, repeated words and background sounds. It may still contain errors.*

[\[00:00\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=%5Fcgv5O6lejY&t=0s&ref=ghost.psymposia.com) And the story is wild that 10 weeks after that case was dropped, that company, Botanic Tonics, made a $500,000 donation to Maha Pact. It's one of the groups that's aligned with Kennedy's Make America Healthy Again. the kind of RFK admin was taking swings at 70 and they did this whole press conference that was essentially taking these swings at 708 which is direct competitor to feel free from which is the product from Botanic Tonics. So this story is about and the story is wild.

[\[00:46\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=%5Fcgv5O6lejY&t=46s&ref=ghost.psymposia.com) So it is about in 2023 the feds raided a warehouse in Oklahoma from this company thisratom. So what where are we at? We atratom orratom. How is this pronounced? I mean I'm going to go ahead and sayratom just because that's what Google told me. The Shay's aatomay gave me \[expletive\] before when we were reviewing the notes that I mispronounced. \[laughter\] I think we're two for two on this one. I'm going to have Yeah. So, this story is wild. So, in 2023, the feds raided an Oklahoma facility that had something like 250,000 bottles of aratom supplement. It's like a little tonic. The company is called Botanic Botanic Tonics.

[\[01:33\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=%5Fcgv5O6lejY&t=93s&ref=ghost.psymposia.com) By the way, I've had them before. What's your Have you I have tell us when back when I worked at a hemp shop I was like that was one of the things that we sold. And was it the feel free? Yeah. Yeah. And I think they also had one that was Cabba. I personally I've only ever tried in earnest like once and I feel like it just made me itchy and so I was not super into it after that. But I did try that. I had it like gifted to me by my employer when I worked at the hemp shop and I remember that if there was an effect it was not enough to be like this is definitely effect and not just me kind of wanting one but I have like what they're supposed to be at.

[\[02:25\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=%5Fcgv5O6lejY&t=145s&ref=ghost.psymposia.com) I don't know. I have a funny story. I used to do an Airbnb out of my apartment. And so I'd get the and my Airbnb was sort of like my marketing that I did was sort of aimed towards plant people and hippies and stuff like that, which was kind of a nice filter because I would get really interesting people. And so on any given random night at any time, I would have people from all over the world staying. So one night I get this guy and he comes over. He's a really interesting guy. We're sitting in my living room. talking and he goes, "Hey, do you mind if I you mind if I bring up myrratom? I got some supplies." He's like, "I just have to cook it up." And I was like, "No, all right, cool." And so he brings in this big ass \[expletive\] bag of he like takes my pot on the stove and he starts boiling all theratom.

[\[03:14\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=%5Fcgv5O6lejY&t=194s&ref=ghost.psymposia.com) And I had it I had a like a coffee mug of it. That's the only time I've really done like a significant dose of it, but it was nice. It made me feel it made me feel nice. The nausea was definitely there but it wasn't pleasant like a very pleasant experience. As a harm reductionist, it's an amazing tool. I have like I worked at a vape shop that sold like a huge supply ofratom and I talked to a ton of people who like that was how they had gotten off of other opioids. And you know it is still like an opioid. You can still have like withdrawal symptoms and you can still overuse and abuse it 100%. But I mean in terms of reducing harms, it definitely does that.

[\[04:01\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=%5Fcgv5O6lejY&t=241s&ref=ghost.psymposia.com) It's 100% harm reduction. And you know, I'm a fan of it for that reason. It's just never been something that I feel like has connected with me. My understanding, and I'm curious if this is supported by what you've seen, is that there is still an addictive property to it. But is there less of an overdose potential fromratom? Yeah. Yeah. No, there there definitely is still an addictive quality to it, but overdoing it on cratium cratratom is like mostly just unpleasant. It's it kind of encourages like a moderate dose a lot of times and then when people like you definitely can get to the point where you're overusing it and get to the point where you're like have a problematic like relationship with it as well. But you know again like I it's better probably to have that withratom than it would be with like fentanyl or heroin in most cases.

[\[04:49\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=%5Fcgv5O6lejY&t=289s&ref=ghost.psymposia.com) You know can definitely still be an unhealthy thing and can have like physical or like you know medical problems associated with it but again harm reduction not harm removal I definitely think. Yeah for sure. So let's tie up some of these loose ends cuz we're totally burying the lead here right now. So in 2023, the Biden Biden administration botanic was raided. They seized 250,000 bottles. And then fast forward, that was in April 2023\. And then fast forward to December of last year. That case was suddenly they had the company had filed a motion to dismiss in December and then suddenly the DOJ dropped the case completely dropped the case and Politico had then reported that 10 weeks after that case was dropped they gave that company Botaniconics made a $500,000 donation to Maha Pact.

[\[05:49\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=%5Fcgv5O6lejY&t=349s&ref=ghost.psymposia.com) It's one of the groups that's aligned with Kennedy's Make America Healthy Again. And there's some interesting background on Botanic Tonics that the founder, his name is JW Ross, but he's also known as Jerry Cash. He was convicted for federal fraud for embezzling $10 million from an oil and gas company to fund his lifestyle. And but the big part of this story is that DHS Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen had a stake in Botanic Tonics for between when he did his disclosure to become DHS secretary, they reported $500,000 to a million dollars holdings of Botanic Tonics. So, so basically they're raided. In December of last year, the case is dropped.

[\[06:36\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=%5Fcgv5O6lejY&t=396s&ref=ghost.psymposia.com) They immediately make a $500,000 donation to Maha Pack and then and found out that Mark Wayne Mullen had a between a half million and a million dollar stake in the company. It's like the most blatant \[expletive\] I've ever seen. Yeah. But surprising move from Mark Wayne. You know, he's usually straight and narrow, but he's become one of the my understanding he's become one of the richest politicians in office right now since he's gotten in office. He He's worth a \[expletive\] ton of money. I thought he might be worth $60 million now or so. Wow. It's just one to fight union members. Yeah, he has this edge. He has this edge. He can nudge people to make these donations and nothing matters.

[\[07:24\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=%5Fcgv5O6lejY&t=444s&ref=ghost.psymposia.com) And then he participated in that like press conference with RFK and the Maha people around 7 70 700\. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to briefly explain that Russ about what the point of that? Do you know anything James about 70? Oh, no. I'm completely ignorant. So, okay. It seems like it's like the synthetic concentrated version of what's in like a catratom leaf and the and it's a it's sorry I didn't know the molecular name but yeah I have heard of hydro hydroxy metrain metraanine I think. Yeah, that's \[laughter\] what I said. I'm gonna use that as the cold open gym. \[laughter\] Damn it.

[\[08:10\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=%5Fcgv5O6lejY&t=490s&ref=ghost.psymposia.com) But it's sold in gas stations. It's sold in hemp shops and head shops across the United States. And the kind of RFK admin was taking swings at 70\. And they did this whole press conference that was essentially taking these swings at 70 which is a direct competitor to more natural umratom product which is direct competitor to feel free from which is the product from botanic tonics. Yeah. So while Mark Wayne Mullen has all these investments in this he went on stage at this press conference we have a clip of to talk about 70 the competitor to the company he's invested in. And then when someone goes and they go to rehab and you get out and because my lord, we've been to every rehab center you can imagine.

[\[08:58\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=%5Fcgv5O6lejY&t=538s&ref=ghost.psymposia.com) And I'm sure some of you guys have experienced the same thing. And they're clean, they're doing better, and they find out they can go to a gas station or a vape shop or skate shop or bike shop and they can find something that's legal for them to take that gives them the same high. And they can still pass drug tests even though they're on probation. And yet it's a road to the same addiction. And you see the pattern. You see it in their face. You see it in their eyes. You see it in their words. You see it in their behavior. And you're going, "Oh my gosh, here we go again." And you go get them drug test and they're passing. You're going, "What is going on? How can they pass this? What are you doing? I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything illegal." But you can read it because you've been with that loved one so long. You see it.

[\[09:44\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=%5Fcgv5O6lejY&t=584s&ref=ghost.psymposia.com) And worst of all, they're not buying it from me. \[laughter\] Yeah. and your helper and you once again you know where the road is headed. And then honestly those that of our family members that we've struggled with addiction when they actually get bit in prison, it's probably the first night you actually sleep well because you know where they're at. And in our case, the person gets out after years in prison and they find it in a drugstore again. And these individuals that are selling it know what they're doing. They know the individuals are targeting. And it's like if the without the context that he's invested in their competitor, there's almost something you could take away as being genuine from what he's saying like of some worry there, but knowing that it's like rings so hollow, \[laughter\] genuine and a little misguided, but you could see him being genuine.

[\[10:30\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=%5Fcgv5O6lejY&t=630s&ref=ghost.psymposia.com) Yeah. Until then, I Wow. I hated like every element of that. Like all of his alarms that he was ringing were that like people won't get more punishment. And it's like grow up. \[laughter\] Like why do you want people to get punished so bad? Why you going teacher? Is that what he was calling for? Well, it was like he was like, you know, they get out and then they can still pass their drug tests. They can still get employed. they still, you know, like it's like we're you're making it so like they don't get caught being bad, you know, like that's how it kind of felt to me at least. Yeah. I mean, I guess I heard that there's a way in which like I can understand the impulse which is like, you know, people are having a hard time with substances. is they might have already had some serious consequences whether work-wise or interpersonally with you know family and then they're trying to get back onto you know a kind of a better footing in life that's doesn't have all of these negative

[\[11:31\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=%5Fcgv5O6lejY&t=691s&ref=ghost.psymposia.com) Consequences and then there's these products that are marketed to them you know openly that are kind of undoing all of that effort that people are working towards I can understand that side of it you know but it is very much undermined by the products \[laughter\] yeah Yeah. What you don't know as someone watching that is he's an investor in the competitor to the thing he's advocating against, which I just find ridiculous. They know who they're marketing to and I know who they're marketing to because I'm invested in a company that's also marketing to these people. Yeah. Yeah. And that that image of the kind of the stereotypical scenario that he was advancing, it's not everyone's life is like that and like you know everyone has their own situations, their own struggles and so it's not so simple but definitely the you know the marketing of because there was also that product recently I forget what it was called where like kids were purchasing some kind of drink from gas stations and they were getting like hooked on the drink.

[\[12:29\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=%5Fcgv5O6lejY&t=749s&ref=ghost.psymposia.com) It was like a blue do you know what I'm talking about? There was like a lot of discourse about it recently, but it's like there are these incent continual in incentives for new products to be marketed and hooking consumers. It's kind of like how people say the economy these days is just kind of addiction and gambling, you know, there's like those underlying drivers. Yeah. And it's like so it's like I have a lot of sympathy towards that concern, but you know, when you kind of oversimplify things in a way that makes life harder for people, then we get into problems. Yeah. Were you thinking of Tiana? Tianine tyopine? I don't know what it's called, but this is US FDA article here that's saying gas station heroin. Oh, yeah.

[\[13:14\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=%5Fcgv5O6lejY&t=794s&ref=ghost.psymposia.com) That's how it was being described. Yeah. Oh. Oh, that that is feel free. Feel free is the name of it. Okay. It's another botanic tonic drink. Oh, is it? I think that might be Cava, actually. Yeah, I've had that one before, too. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's so funny that I thought it was Oh, that is a botanic tonic. Yeah. Yep. That's really funny. Is that And is that actually different than that was just another product that they had? It's Cava. Yeah. Mixed. So, this is actually the one that was rated. Yeah. I didn't realize \[laughter\] what I did. We're coming full circle here. Yeah. It turns out it was very on topic. All right. I think we're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back. Hey there.

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